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Monday, 21 January 2013

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Catie

Oh this is one of my favourites- although I think the first version I read was Hans Christian Anderson's. It's interesting because in the Anderson version the boys are turned into swans- ravens seem like comparatively more sinister animals. I like the parallel you've drawn with the story of Joseph- definitely food for thought.
In terms of fairy tale parallels, I think that there is some similarity here with the motif of queens whose children are swapped for animals. I can't remember a more accurate description, but I read a book about it (Chaucer's Constance and Accused Queens by Margaret Schlauch) for my undergrad.

Basically in these tales someone, usually the evil stepmother, swaps the queen's babies for animals (either by transforming them magically or substitution) and then accuses the queen of having slept with demons/animals. While the focus of this tale is on the children, not the queen, it's interesting that there is a shared motif of children becoming animals and the sad figure of the queen.

Alex

I was wondering about the Joseph story from the moment the twelve brothers including baby Benjamin turned up - the more so when we reach the point when the brothers vow to kill the Joseph figure. What i do find hard to believe is that the father would agree to save the girl at the expense of the boys. In reality I'm fairly sure she would have been exposed at birth - but then that wouldn't have made for a moral tale, would it:)

Helen

That was the first version I read too, Catie! I think then the sister had to weave shirts out of nettles in order to free her brothers. I think it might be quite close to 'The Six Swans' which is later in this collection of Grimms' tales. What a brilliant point about medieval literature! I think that the motif can be found in romances as well as in Chaucer's work, maybe some others?

Alex, I do wonder whether a female with a subversive sense of humour had a hand in the story at some point... Perhaps the story of Joseph might stand up to more sustained analysis, I was too lazy to do it.

litlove

Like you and Alex, I find the gender relations extraordinary in this tale. Although it's nice to see the boys take one for the team for once. Although there is something perhaps biblical about the princess who, like Eve, brings a sentence of unearned guilt on the males. It's amazing how dangerous women and men are to one another before the intense purification process that readies them for marriage!

Desperate Reader

This is one of the fairy stories that Maitland discusses so these aren't really my ideas but... She draws a parallel with Bluebeard with the locked chamber containing something secret and horrible and there's more than a suggestion that this is a father who has an unhealthy interest in his daughter.

It also backs up her theory about it being sisters who told these stories - they do seem to be about siblings rather often, and parents don't always show up very well.

I do feel rather sorry for the snakes in boiling oil though.

Helen

Oooh, litlove, I think the comparison with Eve is very apt. When you look at it like that, it's amazing that the human race has survived!

Hayley, I had thought of Bluebeard too but then forgotten; I'll have to think a bit more about the incest. It's fascinating how these stories riff off each other (and the Bible) to gain extra depth or alternative meanings.

I felt sorry for the snakes too - but only after I had laughed. :)

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